Branstock Farm

Sport Ponies and Working Stock Dogs

Home

Sport Ponies

Events

Working Stock Dogs

Training Tips

Tip 1 

If you have the (even the subconscious) attitude that your dogs can't do it then they never will. Some dogs may never get past test level. But there were times I thought I would never even get there with some of my dogs. The first dogs we train, we learn on. They will never be as competitive as the dogs that come after, but they are the ones that teach us, put up with our mistakes and still try to get the job done, and therefore hold (at least in mine) a special place in our hearts. I expect dogs and their handlers to get to at least Herding Started level and to do well. I have found that most dogs have drive, a lot of natural balance and want to please as well (one of the reasons we don't put too much pressure on them at first). It is real easy to turn a dog off if you don't understand what pressure is and is not. When necessary, the dog and I will wait for the handler to catch up.

Most good herding trainers (referring to either Australian Shepherd of Border Collie Trainers) will help other breeds if the owners (key word) are willing to learn (key phrase). What they get tired of is the whining and the making excuses for the breed of dog and the owner's unwillingness to put the time and effort into it. This is not something you learn overnight, it is not something you can really practice off stock, you can't really coddle your dog, (when given a command either he does it or he doesn't, no in-betweens) AND the handler MUST be aware of what the dog is saying to him.

If a dog is unsure of itself it may work better for me than its owner. The reason may be that they need to be praised and encouraged, they want their owners to be happy and please them. Owners need to realize the importance of changing gears quickly to avoid frustration in them and their dog.


 

Tip 2

At a certain point we set the interest and drive with the dog as well as teach "balance". Without interest you simply cannot train a dog. You cannot make the dog go out and work sheep if it doesn't want to. I tend to train in steps. I find this works best for the kind of dogs and people I work with. I will introduce something new, make sure that they (the handler and the dog) have a decent idea of what it is, then I wait for them to become comfortable with it. I don't want anyone to be overwhelmed. Balance (where the dog needs to be to bring the sheep directly to the handler) is the beginning of the flanks and the flanks are the beginning of the outrun.

Being able to read the sheep is very important for the dog to learn as well. Everything a dog is learning now will transfer over into the trial field. Once he has slowed down and widened out he will know when a ewe is ready to bolt out of the group and he will adjust accordingly with out a single command on the part of the handler. When it comes to saving points and not losing sheep, its pretty damn cool because he will know seconds before you do. I have many a dog pull my irons out of the fire that way. They will eventually slow themselves down for the lift (that initial moment of contact with the sheep) so that it is nice and pretty (or so we hope). The dog will learn to rate itself and to adjust within seconds for different types (light or heavy) of sheep.

The stop is the beginning of a steady or slow. Once you get a good to moderate stop on the dog then we will add a steady. Of course the dog hasn't a clue what it is that we are asking, so he will ignore us. We then ask him to lie down or stop. "Steady", "Lie Down." The dog will then to anticipate the stop and begin to slow. If he slows then we leave him alone. To the dogs, staying in control of the stock is paramount so to be left on their feet and moving is MUCH better than stopping or lying down. The work is its own reward to the dog. If he starts to rush again we say steady, if he does, fine. If not, then its the stop, but first we must have a good stop.

The dog must respect the handler and give control over to the handler. He must move away when the handler moves towards him as the dog goes around the sheep. (Here is the tricky part) if you ask for too much the dog will feel he is being punished, he will not understand what is asked of him, he will stop, or cut in or just plain quit. If he gives a little and goes A LITTLE wider each time we ask, then we take the pressure off the dog by letting him continue to work the stock, just a little further away from them. Then (again) the work becomes its own reward and the dog understands what is asked of him. If each time you work and each time you get your dog a little wider, nothing spectacular, just a little, then in the long run, you will have what it is you want with out really fighting with the dog.

I want everything now or yesterday and I want to be prefect. Every time someone finds a fault in my work I am crushed, but because I have learned to eat crow (with a little salt its not too bad) and be patient I am progressing. I am not prefect (yet).


 

Tip 3

All dogs are predators. Given enough time and opportunity they will exhibit this behavior. They can be trained to respect certain boundaries and honor certain prerogatives.

When a dog goes around the sheep and fetches them to the handler he is in effect bringing the sheep to the "Alpha Dog" to select and kill one. "The alpha dog's prerogative". This social structure that is basic to all canines as a group is what we base herding on. Dogs can be taught to honor the right of the alpha dog to make the kill, even when the alpha dog is not present.

Point in case;

I am caring for a lovely, quiet, very soft English Shepherd for a friend while she is on vacation, this dog lives in a house with 3 loose house rabbits and never bothers them, yet yesterday he "bagged" one of my laying hens.

A lot of dogs seem to me to be more scared of working close to the sheep than to have overwhelming prey drive. They also have an intense desire to work sheep. So when put in a situation where they have to work the sheep in a small area they resort to gripping, and chasing to solve their dilemma as opposed to quitting on you.

I solve this problem by taking them into a large open feild-30 acres. This eliminates the problem. The dog can now work 50 to 75 feet off the sheep, without a fence or barrier within 100 feet or so. The dogs quiet right down, balance, and honor the handler. I do use fairly dog broken sheep, so they will stay with the handler, but I do not use heavy sheep, which require the dog to work close, to move them, defeating the purpose of the exercise. I will gradually work the dog closer and closer to the fence or the tree line to get them use to the pressure, (I have found that small areas-less than 5 acres-are pressure to most dogs.) and eventually move them into a work arena if that is what the owner wants them to do.

It is my opinion that people work in areas that are much too small. Most dogs are more comfortable in a large open field and will work better in them. It is the people that want the security of small "controllable" arena, thus making their own problems.

So what is often mistaken for prey drive is really a symptom of too much or misunderstood pressure.


 Tip 4

The "Training Tip" detailed below appeared in the
"All Herders-L" list serve July 15, 1998.

All HERDERS-L email is Copyright 1998 by its original author. Permission
to redistribute MUST be obtained from the author.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

In developing outruns and square flanks (they are in all reality the same thing since all an outrun is, is an elongated flank, conversely most outrun problems are flank problems) this is one of the exercises I use.

I start this exercise after I am sure the dog will "honor" my space. If I move towards the dog, the dog will move directly back, once I quarter my body, move back or in some way release the "pressure" on the dog, he will then move forward or maintain status quo. This in not to say the dog is afraid of me, all of my dogs love me, sleep in my bed (much to my husbands chagrin! Eight corgis in a double bed does not leave much room, the border collies sleep on the floor.) and come to me willing, but my dogs respect me and see me as alpha bitch (I just need to convince my husband of that.) Doing so they will "honor" my space.

This is different than escaping the pressure by darting sideways, or groveling (some dogs learn this form of passive resistance, "I'll grovel at your feet so I don't have to do what I don't want me to do." Thus avoiding the whole issue.) or anything other than "giving" to the pressure I have applied.
 

Now here is the tricky part:

The second, the absolute second that dog gives to the pressure-release it. What you are doing is setting up a simple conditioned response. You put pressure on the dog, the dog gives, you take the pressure off. If you do not take the pressure off the second that dog moves away, or
even simply turns it head, then the dog does not understand what is being asked of it. How this applies to herding is: If you can get the dog to "give" to the pressure at 5 feet, then you can work it out gradually, with the same methods to 450 feet and further. So when the dog goes to slice on a 100 yard outrun, you can take a step forward at the handlers post and the dog that is so conditioned to giving to you will widen out.

Most dogs, in most conventional training methods, when they leave the handlers feet are not thinking about reaching the balance point, or reading the sheep, they are thinking about how quickly they can get the sheep back to the handler. This causes them to run close, and slice at
the top, starting the sheep in motion before they have reached the balance point.

So what I like to do is take the "lift" out of the flank. I want that dog thinking about reaching the balance point (thus reading his/her sheep). Once he/she reaches the balance point then and only then can they, should they, start thinking about the lift. Once the sheep lift, then the dog can think about the fetch. In other words, breaking down the whole herding exercise into its basic parts for the dog.

To do this, I will start with fairly quiet sheep, at a close enough distance that is comfortable for each individual dog. I send the dog and as he is going to the stock I quietly walk towards the sheep at a slight angle AWAY from the dog. I want that dog to run into my "sphere" of influence at the top of his outrun or flank so he stays out and pauses at the "balance point". Your focus must be ahead of the dog's movements. Its a bit like shooting clay pigeons, you must lead ahead of the motion. If the dog is correct he is allowed to walk up on the stock and move them, but if the dog slices, flips back on me or blows by me, I get between the sheep and the dog until the dog stops and set it up all over again.

The dog will not get the sheep until he has done it correctly. Nothing else will satisfy. Being able to "have his sheep" is a reward to the dog. It is what they want. No need for praise, or encouragement. Does a drug addict have to be paid to take drugs? Neither does a sheepdog need praise to work sheep. If your dog is soft, or sensitive, modify this some. On these dogs or dogs that want to sulk or turn off, if you get some improvement allow them to "have their sheep". Just each time you work, then ask for a little more improvement until before the dog knows it you have him doing exactly what you want.

Home

Sport Ponies

Events

Working Stock Dogs

Contact information

Marc and Sue Mesa
Branstock Farm
Royston, GA

706-245-8566.
www.branstockfarm.com

e-mail
 Sue
smesa@earthlink.net
Marc
mmesa@earthlink.net


Artwork by Sue Mesa